Our friends over at GamePro.com have written an interesting article on a topic I get asked about all the time — Is the PS3 harder to develop for than other systems? I gave them some feedback on this and the reporter, Blake Snow, does a nice job of presenting a well-rounded story. For this piece, I spoke to our PD group and asked them for input on this question and thought you might be interested in reading their full reply:
This is an interesting question and hidden within the question is an enormously complex subject! If the game starts life on PS3, then man-hours per feature or costs related to asset production are comparable with industry norms. For that, you can include Xbox 360 and high-end PC games, and exclude PS2 and Wii. However, since PS3’s Cell processor allows MORE features – better physics, more complex graphical processing, lighting or sound, etc. — there is inevitably going to be more cost in supporting those extra features. It’s not that PS3 is harder to write for, it’s just that you can do more with it.
Middleware tools like Havok and other specialist graphics tools are now customized to exploit Cell’s SPUs. These mean that developers don’t have to reinvent those particular wheels themselves. Also, PlayStation Edge does some very difficult and performance-critical aspects of the graphics pipeline on the SPUs: geometry processing, animation, compression – delivering performance unachievable on other systems. This is available for free to all developers from SCE. So, given that PS3 can draw more on screen, the assets required to fill that capacity go up, too. This can, but not always, require more people – however depending on the game, much of that extra content can be produced automatically – procedurally in software, not by hand. Compared to PS2, the SPUs are much easier to code for. In PS2 we had some custom chips called VU0 and VU1 which were powerful, but tricky to write for. The SPUs use a more standard programming language.
Now, it’s not without challenges:
1) SPUs are not ‘normal’ processors like the PPU. There is a trade-off between performance and versatility. A Ferrari is not the best car for a visit to Home Depot…
2) If you are porting:
If your game starts on Xbox 360 you will have to re-engineer aspects of the game to run properly on PS3. This means additional effort. Some developers have been complaining about this but I don’t believe we can solve that. Xbox 360 is a different machine with good, but lower powered hardware in a different architecture. Developers have to view them as two different machines not as a common platform.
3) If your game has heavy online use:
XBL provides more and better standard libraries for online gaming to developers. For the same features on PS3, developers have to do some extra work. We’re catching up, but there is a difference.
BTW: Glad you guys and gals are enjoying the new blog!
Ok you must be wrong the PS3 must be difficult to develop for because you can’t get the wallpaper ability out there. You can’t get the Motorstorm update out, the resistance patch out. You can’t release any demos to the PSN. So what it looks like to me is that it must be hard to develop for since you’re not showing it to be easy!!
Why is there such a delay on demos?
Why can’t we access the XMB in game like shown at E3?
Why can’t we get voice chat in all games?
Why are you trying to shove trailers down our throat and make us happy with Blogs?
Thanks Sony for doing this. I like that you guys want to listen to your customers. And thanks Richard Marks for your input.
Hey Richard are you guys going to show anything about the EYE and the PS3 (like that cup scooping up water at E3 2005) at this years E3?
oh and Dave when will new PSP colors be released in the US?
I love my PS3, but please start releasing considerable amount of useful content on the PS Store.
I realize what’s coming ahead, but I want more than a couple of pieces of content per week.
Last week was terrible with all the content being trailers.
It’s good to see that you’re admitting that PSN isn’t as good as XBL, though elementally different.
In my opinion, you’re better off making the game for PS3 and then porting to 360.
Yeah at least give us a reason why some of the issues we are upset about are being ignored. For someone who’s an avid fan of playstation products it seems like SCEA takes care of the US audience at an extremely sluggish pace.
What possible reason could you have not to release new PSP colors in the US, when japan and UK have 3 already?
Digi Smalls,
If you aren’t waiting on the results from the SPUs, then there is basically no overhead for the main processor. The SPUs can handle getting and putting data to main memory without the PPU being involved.
Of course, if you are waiting for the result, then the PPU is going to block:
[PPU] doing AI
[PPU] wants a collision test
[PPU] sends work to SPU
[PPU] STALL! –> [SPU] Does collision
[PPU]
The cool thing is that very often, the SPU can do the calculation faster than the PPU, so even though it stalls, it still runs faster overall. Also, if you are running other threads on the PPU, then when that stall is hit, those threads get to do more work.
Mark
Give me a reason to look at the PS Store more than 1 time a week. Release content regularly!
I guess Sony needs to go hunt down all those old Amiga devs – they were used to hitting the hardware, learning and optimising, unlike those rent-a-dev Visual Studio developers you get these days.. ;o)
Nice to see an honest outlet for PS3 news at last, which is what we want – honesty really is the best policy :o)
Dave-
I will start by saying that I think the blog is a great idea and should be treated as such. Something that you guys seem to be doing at this moment. Keep up the great work in that regard.
However, the lack of content on the PSN is something that all Playstation owners want to see changed. Even if more content can’t be added at a faster rate(such as 2 updates a week instead of one and more content in each update), please explain why.
The issue I see witht he whole thing is that you are Sony. You own a huge amount of the music/movie/video game business yet you seem to have difficulty rounding up content. Just start putting music videos on there or something. Old movie trailers from years back. Old agme trailers. Anything. I know you have the content, you’re Sony. Now, just start stuffing the store with it.
Thank you for your time and I think you guys have done a great job with the blog so far.
P.S. In game music streamed from the HDD and in game XMB access would be nice. :)
Hopefully, Sony’s own first party studios will show developers how to really make games for the Ps3, they can serve as an example to EA and Ubisoft who constantly make bad Ps3 ports of Xbox 360 games. Uncharted, Lair, and Heavenly Sword are prime examples of how a Ps3 game should be developed. Good job Sony.
[]^XO
@rukusa:
It took two months between me sending my registration and being able to log-in. Have some patience and we’ll see you on the boards soon enough.
good post, I was wondering why for example games that are ported from the 360 sometimes look and play inferior to the original console, I guess the developers will have to “learn” how this console works, other thing we all heard that PS2 was hard to program games for and still it outsold every other platform in the same category, and had the best games overall. Still thought I see a lot of people complaining about PSN etc. Well it isn’t great, there are a few demos out, I guess it all depends on the developers releasing them to the public. As for all this XMB in game access… Hardly a very useful thing for me… When I play a game I don’t browse the internet at the same time, I don’t listen to other music – why would I? It’s the whole game your experiencing along with the composed score, still I guess that feature is in the 360, with many people wanting it, SONY will add this to the features in some firmware revision. Thanks for the blog, finally able to see some insight from the people who develop stuff for us.
Excellent, informative post, Dave. I enjoyed the frankness and look forward to more such articles followed by the intelligent discourse (minus the trolling from a select few).
Reply to shuffles
You can find a counter of how many Ps3’s have been sold on nexgenwars.com or http://www.vgchartz.com.
[]^XO
Very cool, thanks Mark.
One more question. Ideally, how much graphics processing should the Cell’s SPUs be doing outside of what RSX is doing?
Is there a recommended balance Sony suggests for running actual game code and graphics transformations on the Cell, if at all?
So disappointed with the PS Store right now. Last week I was angry, this week, I’m getting pretty ambivalent to whether these updates come or not. I’m about to the point where I’ll probably just stop playing the PS3 games I have, which are coincidentally, the ones that are due for updates, and try and find something else.
KNOCK KNOCK?
Who’s there?
PSN store content.
PSN STORE CONTENT, WHO?
*silence*
You guys thought you were getting a lot of comments on the topics you already posted? Try posting one about your PS Store updates. I notice you’re hiring for a Content Manager. What are the hours? 9AM to 10AM on Thursday mornings.
It’s a frickin disgrace that a global billion-dollar company can’t put up more than a single game trailer in a week. I could do a better job downloading trailers off of websites around the web and using software to transcode them to .mp4. How hard can that be???
GodofWar555555,
All the games you’ve mentioned still aren’t out yet including Lair and Heavenly Sword which have been delayed repeatedly. It’s still too soon to be saying “good job”.
while i’m sure they will be top-notch games, timeliness would be a major thing to add if they are to be ideal examples of PS3 game development.
bringing the PSN libraries and EDGE tools to the level of their competition would be a huge first step. for first AND third party alike.
Where is the PSN Updates? You made this essay long post giving your company a virtual handjob, but you can’t update the PSN Store. You sir, are a failure.
I agree with KillerNapkin, we need more PSN content. Third and First party Demo’s are a must!!!!!!!!!!! A few videos for old and new games isn’t enough, more content is needed
As a PSP owner I can attest first hand to the lazy ass developer theory the unit is is easy to develop for far more superior to the DS but is flooded with ports, half ass ports.
I agree Sony needs to work a lot more closely with developers open a help desk if you have to and come up with your own Nintendo seal of approval
NO MORE PORTS ORIGINAL CONTENT ONLY LEAVE PORTS FOR THE PSN ONLY……
I would just like the PSN store content addressed. Sony should make this year’s E3 a big thing on PSN.
Will they listen to their customers?
Digi Smalls,
The basic advice we give developers is to put as much as possible onto the SPUs. Edge does triangle culling and mesh skinning on the SPUs, for example.
We haven’t seen anyone max out the SPUs yet.
Mark
Wow, as much as I love you guys as a company and a console maker…
Your PS Store SUCKS.
Jesus, how about a good update once in a while?
The 360 gets about 3 demos each week, and we’re stuck here with a 2-minute trial of a crappy puzzle game. Get real, and start making some damn demos.
As you can see Sony, It’s extremely frustrating to have been asked to pay the premium for the PS3 over its competitor, and then asked after the fact to wait patiently for the PS3 to match it’s competitor’s abilities. In gaming, online gaming, or serving up digital media. (much less waiting for the PS3 to exceed it’s competition, like you continue to promise.)
Blu-Ray playback just isn’t enough.
price drop and we will shut up
i have 2 ps3 both are so dusty
its a same
make a public beta of warhawk or socom
just give us something
PS3 is more powerful hardware…this is not opinion. this is fact. what the developers do with that is another story. that’s the whole issue people.
I see this whole thing as a long-term investment in the console, as eventually people will get much more skilled with the development, and when that happens they will be set to make some outstanding titles, wanting that right now is comparable to people wanting gears of war out of quake 4. But given the learning curve it will obviously take an extra minute or two. I was one of the people that actually considers myself a “smart consumer”. I looked into all the specs of the PS3 early on and discussed the idea of a multi-threaded, multi-core architecture with my buddies, who are complete tech junkies just like me, and before the PS3 even came out we knew that there was gonna be that “early adopter” period where the games were gonna be half-done, due to development intricacy. But I bought one regardless, as that I don’t trust MSofts manufacturing process, and it hasn’t proved me wrong yet. The games they put out so far with the exception of a couple are up to par with me as far as launch titles go. And the hardware is top-notch. Most compaints are software selection, which believe me, will pick up, and features, which they are steadily narrowing the gap on. I payed for a long term investment, not whats hot right this second. As a gamer, I will probably be more satisfied in the long run with this decision than I would be with a 360 or a Wii, and I have tons of friends that will testify to that, as they have already lost interest in theirs (360,Wii).
PSN needs a team of people who are excited about the store to update it…research what could be put on the store…provide news/interviews and videos. Why is that so hard? Dave, You have my email.
Evazan great idea get some intern promiss them a chance 2 move up in the company
just do something
I guess most of third party developpers will reach the PS3 judging by the huge technical interest of this gaming plate forme.
It’s here for a long time, and that’s why we can’t wait for a proper driver in order to let linux ( as yellow dog ) use the rsx.
The PS3 can be both a wonderfull gaming machine, and a proper pc, this hardware is wonderfull and it’s sad to lock it.
I hope sony will understand this request, i guess it will improve third party developper’s interest for the PS3 and it’s capacity in the long terme
PSN is indeed in serious need of attention. Even the regularly updated US Store receives too few content.
What is too few content you might ask…
Well, naturally the consumer would compare the service to that offered by the opposition. When I see a multiplatform game’s demo going to XBL I also expect it to appear on PS3 Store. This is not asking too much. And when the XBL receives at least 2 new games every week you tend to expect more from PSN store.
Also… What happened to that PS1 library? Can you please explain me why XBOX owners are able to download Castlevania: Symphony of the Night on XBLA but it is not on PSN store? Games like that would not only support PS3 but also PSP.
Seriously the PSN needs help ASAP.
im sorry 2 say
im about finaly give in and go get an 360 until warhawk or something comes out
im bored
you wont be dissapointed chase, and at least you will have two kick @$$ consoles. not to mention an unbiased opinion
To Diji Smalls
What I mean by “Good Job” is that those are some games that will drives Ps3 sales and will make a difference in the platform, I know those games won’t be out for a few months but atleast there is something to get excited about and make Ps3 owners glad to own a Ps3. I am not excited as much for Halo 3 on the Xbox 360 as I am for the original and fun looking Uncharted. That is what I mean by Good Job.
[]^XO
mr tretton… after another imbarassing psn thursday…. you must fire the people responsible for that
its unbelievable how bad the psn store is, with all the potential that sony has…. someone is not doing his/her job
enough with the promises or the waiting… gamers want content NOW not tomorrow and enough with the lame trailers
when will you listen??? how hard is it for sony to understand what gamers want??
ok im head 2 target now to get a 360 at lease ill have 90days 2 return it
I have to say…it’s sucks to get home early from work on thursday and find such crappy downloads in the ps store:0( why can’t we get kool demos like the 360….. and what’s up with RESISTANCE AND MOTOR STORM UPDATES!!!!!!!!! 12 DAYS FROM NOW RAINBOW SIX AND DARKNESS HIT’S THE SHELVES ( THIS IS NOT A FACT!!!!!) WHICH MEANS I WILL BE TOO BUSY PLAYING THOSE GAMES ( THAT’S IF THEY COME OUT) SO THERE WILL BE NO TIME FOR UPDATES…..INSOMNIAC AND EVOLUTION WILL LOSE BIG TIME FOR THIS LOOONG WAIT
(downloadable) music videos would be sweet on psn along with shows or movies,
c’mon mate anything! throw a dog a bone and please give us ps3 owners some content.
pretty please
Don’t be too hard on Sony for the PS store’s lacking inventory. MS had the same trouble w/ marketplace for the first year (espicially XBLA). As time goes on, it’ll pick up steam. I’m sure they know we’re interested. People ask for more downloads on forums and blogs, and I’m sure they monitor the traffic that the available downloads get. Hang in there – it’s just a matter of time.
Acctually I do agree with the content of the PS store or the lack thereof.
Was wondering where were all the demos that were shown at E3 maybe add in the press conferance’s or heck Fantastic 4 movie is out this week but the trailer is nowhere to be found at the PS store.
Someone has dropped the ball and left the game.
what is even more imbarassing is…that even the wii online service.. has a better offering than the psn store
they get games, not one…but more than one, EVERY WEEK!
how is that possible?? what the…hell is sony waiting for??
very very very disappointed in the psn store, soo much potential, too many suits working for sony not knowing what gamers want
there has to be a change!!
Can sony start work on a game maker for the ps3 can we get a nice rpg/ fighter / fps maker for the ps3 And if you guys work on this you should also work on send files from ps3 to ps3 not just images
those here keep asking for in game access to the XMB but right now we just need in game messaging and maybe for those titles that are to cheap to support the headset let us get the use over the network instead of not having it in game
“Hang in there – it’s just a matter of time.”
You keep hangin’ in there.
I’ll do the [DELETED] for you no prob.
whilst i agree that the PSN has been a little disappointing in the last few week, to call upon Sony to solve this just like that is puerile. what do you think Sony are going to do, wave a wand over a hat and pull out a game?! they take time to make people, especially when you are going for quality over quantity
Cliffbo, Forget quality over quantity.
Sony should have put 8 PSone games on the PSN store if they didn’t have any demos ready.
@ Godofwar55555,
Cheers dude, thats exactly wat i wuz looking for!
[…] PlayStation.Blog (FYI: Sony owned blog):[QUOTE]Our friends over at GamePro.com have written an interesting article […]
Nice nice. Not sure how people could really argue with the PS3 being stronger hardware. Many developers have flat out admitted it.